Comments on: Ethics and the Prisoner's Dilemma http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/ Normal is a variable. Bitching is a constant. Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:58:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: Nina http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/#comment-377 Fri, 13 Jul 2007 03:07:06 +0000 http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/#comment-377 Tom, Now I get it, I just got a little carried away. Thank you Tom, Now I get it, I just got a little carried away. Thank you

]]> by: Tom Weishaar http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/#comment-372 Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:53:32 +0000 http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/#comment-372 Nina - I'm sorry, I don't follow you. The article on this page is about how enlightened self-interest can lead, paradoxically, to a system of ethics. In showing how that works I used game theory and the Prisoner's Dilemma, which is where the concept of retaliation came from. Immediate gratification is related to raw self-interest, not enlightened self-interest. Sorry, but I don't yet see the connection between immediate gratification and self-injury. Nina - I'm sorry, I don't follow you. The article on this page is about how enlightened self-interest can lead, paradoxically, to a system of ethics. In showing how that works I used game theory and the Prisoner's Dilemma, which is where the concept of retaliation came from.

Immediate gratification is related to raw self-interest, not enlightened self-interest. Sorry, but I don't yet see the connection between immediate gratification and self-injury.

]]> by: Nina http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/#comment-362 Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:50:23 +0000 http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/#comment-362 Tom, How is self injury "retaliating"? I am talking about normal human interaction , no "crisis" involved, absolutely none, or is the stupidity connected to "immediate gratification"? Tom,
How is self injury "retaliating"? I am talking about normal human interaction , no "crisis" involved, absolutely none, or is the stupidity connected to "immediate gratification"?

]]> by: Tom Weishaar http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/#comment-360 Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:09:03 +0000 http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/#comment-360 Nina - we even have an idiom for that - "cutting off your nose to spite your face." The Prisoner's Dilemma assumes all parties are acting rationally; in real life that may not be the case, as in your example. On the other hand, this behavior might also be a rational response to powerlessness. If you're in a situation where you continually lose and you have no power to retaliate, could self-injury seem to be a rational course of action? In a losing transaction you get nothing and the other player gets points. Wouldn't not playing at all be better? You still get nothing but now the other player gets nothing, too. In real world contexts, "not playing" might look like "hurting yourself." Nina - we even have an idiom for that - "cutting off your nose to spite your face." The Prisoner's Dilemma assumes all parties are acting rationally; in real life that may not be the case, as in your example.

On the other hand, this behavior might also be a rational response to powerlessness. If you're in a situation where you continually lose and you have no power to retaliate, could self-injury seem to be a rational course of action?

In a losing transaction you get nothing and the other player gets points. Wouldn't not playing at all be better? You still get nothing but now the other player gets nothing, too. In real world contexts, "not playing" might look like "hurting yourself."

]]> by: Nina http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/#comment-348 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:51:31 +0000 http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/#comment-348 I have always wonder and why it seemed so odd to me that some individuals would hurt themselves in an attempt to hurt someone else. At risk of sounding prideful those kind always seemed rather stupid to me. It is not that I am so good is that I would not be so busy hurting some one else that I would in the process hurt myself. You alright the one's who do the later always seem to lose, and the only persons they tend to cling to are the one's that are just like them . What do you think about this phenomenon? I have always wonder and why it seemed so odd to me that some individuals would hurt themselves in an attempt to hurt someone else. At risk of sounding prideful those kind always seemed rather stupid to me. It is not that I am so good is that I would not be so busy hurting some one else that I would in the process hurt myself. You alright the one's who do the later always seem to lose, and the only persons they tend to cling to are the one's that are just like them . What do you think about this phenomenon?

]]> by: Tom Weishaar http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/#comment-56 Wed, 14 Mar 2007 01:44:27 +0000 http://www.jasoose.com/2006/01/29/ethics-and-the-prisoners-dilemma/#comment-56 In the real world, if the two parties to an exchange don't have equal power to retaliate, the system will become dysfunctional. For example, racial and sexual bias are enabled by an imbalance of retaliation power. In the real world, if the two parties to an exchange don't have equal power to retaliate, the system will become dysfunctional.

For example, racial and sexual bias are enabled by an imbalance of retaliation power.

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